||Re: Total height loss penalty
||Number 7 of 7 in thread
||I wish I had known this long ago. My 700ft pull ups would make a big difference to many flights!
## On 29-Aug-17 07:50:00 John Bridge wrote:
I think you misunderstand. There is no suggestion that the "positions" of the declared start and finish points are altered. What is permitted are the "times" at which the task is deemed to have started and/or ended, provided the former is before the start line and the latter after the finish line.
For example, you may have crossed the start line at 1300m and the finish line at 100m (=1200m height loss). You could either select the actual task time between the start and finish lines and accept the 200m height-loss penalty OR pick the point before the start line at which you climbed through 1100m to start the clock. The task DISTANCE remains the same only the task TIME is extended.
In terms of maximising Ladder points, it is up to the pilot to select the most advantageous strategy.
## On 28-Aug-17 20:37:00 Santiago Cervantes wrote:
Just a further thought on this, if we are using a start & finish zone, rather than a line, then that is another matter.
## On 28-Aug-17 20:25:00 Santiago Cervantes wrote:
Looking at the rules as they are at the moment (both FAI and Ladder Rules) I'm unable to find any reference to this variation. If this rule exists, can you point me in the right direction or quantify this rule.
I must admit I find the notion of picking points before start and after finish points a bit odd. Why bother having start and finish lines we could pick anywhere to start and finish and then move our start and finishes around. It could therefor follow on with why bother to do a declaration or set a task?
Would appreciate a bit of clarity on this one.
## On 28-Aug-17 09:11:00 John Bridge wrote:
Absolutely! As far as the Ladder is concerned, there is nothing to stop a pilot choosing the most advantageous combination of start height prior to crossing the start line and/or finish height after finishing in order to minimise the height loss penalty. The only consequence would be an extended task time.
## On 26-Aug-17 18:40:00 John Williams wrote:
Hi John, it may be worth adding that it is also considered reasonable to mitigate the draconian penalty if (and only if) the soaring performance includes lower heights before crossing the actual start or higher heights after crossing the actual finish line. In this way it may be possible to adjust the claimed duration to a time when the 1000m rule is met - claiming a somewhat slower performance may be much more beneficial than simply accepting the draconian distance penalty. My understanding is that world records can use such a philosophy and it would be a pity if the ladder rules were more onerous. Previous postings on this forum dated 27\11\2006, 31\1\12 and 13\7\2015 refer.
## On 26-Aug-17 12:26:00 John Bridge wrote:
We've been here before...the Ladder rule was adapted directly from the FAI Sporting Code Section 3 - Gliding.
From 2016 edition:
2.4.5 Loss of height limits for badge flights
a. For distances greater than 100 kilometres where the LoH exceeds 1000m using barographic data or 900m using GPS height data, an adjustment of 100 times the excess LoH shall be subtracted from the length of the course.
3.1.5 Distance records A new record claim must exceed the current value by 1 km. If the loss of height (LoH) between the start point and the finish point is greater than 1000 metres, the achieved distance shall be reduced by 100 (LoH - 1000m) metres to give the official distance.
I don't see how it is practical for the Ladder rule to be different to the above.
## On 23-Aug-17 20:40:00 Paul Rice wrote:
On Sun I flew a ICL task & thus to compete started @ max height available (1260 mtrs) rather than my normal 1000mtrs.
However for that extra 260 mtrs start height I've been given a distance penalty of over 26 km & a speed penalty of c. 10kph which seem to be extremely harsh penalties. !
I'd appreciate your views.
Thks for all the support